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	<title>Comments on: John 3:16&#8230;and 17 and 18</title>
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	<link>http://www.truthandrepose.com/2009/05/28/john-316and-17-and-18/</link>
	<description>"God offers to every mind its choice between truth and repose." -Ralph Waldo Emerson</description>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://www.truthandrepose.com/2009/05/28/john-316and-17-and-18/comment-page-1/#comment-912</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I can list plenty of passages that exclude belief, just as you listed a handful of passages that exclude baptism.  What do we do with 1 Peter 3:21? &quot;Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.&quot;  Or Acts 2:38? &quot;Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins....&quot;  Or Acts 22:16, or Romans 6:3-4, or Ephesians 5:25-26?

The argument that something is unnecessary because one verse on salvation excludes it eliminates even belief as a condition for salvation. After an analysis like that, only a philosophy of universalism would be able to survive.

Paul&#039;s statement in 1 Corinthians 1 was not meant to negate baptism but to show his disfavor of the division that had formed around personalities, described in verse 12.  Paul had expressed his belief in the essentiality of baptism on numerous occasions (see Rom. 6:3-4; Gal. 3:27).

Hypothetical situations are effective at distracting people from the real issue, but they rarely present valid arguments (cf. Mt. 22:23-28).  It would be horrible for a person to be killed on his way to the baptistery, but that doesn&#039;t answer the question, &quot;What does God&#039;s Word say about baptism?&quot;

Saul of Tarsus had encountered the risen Lord on the way to Damascus; he believed in him enough to call him &quot;Lord&quot; and obey his command to continue on to Damascus and await furher instructions; while there he prayed and fasted three days.  But when Ananias appeared he was told that one thing remained: &quot;Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name&quot; (Acts 22:16).  Despite his faith, prayer, and fasting, Saul still had sins that needed to be washed away.  When he was baptized, that was the point at which God washed them away.

The requirement of baptism, which is God&#039;s idea, not mine, does not go against grace.  God has always required man to receive his gifts before they benefit from the blessing.  Ephesians 2:8-9 explains this: &quot;By grace you have been saved through faith....&quot;  If man does not seek God&#039;s grace &quot;through faith,&quot; that is, believing in his Word enough to obey it, he will not receive it.

Think about these things, Hunter.  This is not just a debate exercise.  I&#039;ve presented plain passages, and my interpretation of them can be harmonized with any Scripture you may cite, whether it has to do with God&#039;s grace or salvation by faith.  With all due respect, your interpretation has failed to deal with baptism at all. You have not even explained why it played such an important role in the lives of the early Christians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can list plenty of passages that exclude belief, just as you listed a handful of passages that exclude baptism.  What do we do with 1 Peter 3:21? &#8220;Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.&#8221;  Or Acts 2:38? &#8220;Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins&#8230;.&#8221;  Or Acts 22:16, or Romans 6:3-4, or Ephesians 5:25-26?</p>
<p>The argument that something is unnecessary because one verse on salvation excludes it eliminates even belief as a condition for salvation. After an analysis like that, only a philosophy of universalism would be able to survive.</p>
<p>Paul&#8217;s statement in 1 Corinthians 1 was not meant to negate baptism but to show his disfavor of the division that had formed around personalities, described in verse 12.  Paul had expressed his belief in the essentiality of baptism on numerous occasions (see Rom. 6:3-4; Gal. 3:27).</p>
<p>Hypothetical situations are effective at distracting people from the real issue, but they rarely present valid arguments (cf. Mt. 22:23-28).  It would be horrible for a person to be killed on his way to the baptistery, but that doesn&#8217;t answer the question, &#8220;What does God&#8217;s Word say about baptism?&#8221;</p>
<p>Saul of Tarsus had encountered the risen Lord on the way to Damascus; he believed in him enough to call him &#8220;Lord&#8221; and obey his command to continue on to Damascus and await furher instructions; while there he prayed and fasted three days.  But when Ananias appeared he was told that one thing remained: &#8220;Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name&#8221; (Acts 22:16).  Despite his faith, prayer, and fasting, Saul still had sins that needed to be washed away.  When he was baptized, that was the point at which God washed them away.</p>
<p>The requirement of baptism, which is God&#8217;s idea, not mine, does not go against grace.  God has always required man to receive his gifts before they benefit from the blessing.  Ephesians 2:8-9 explains this: &#8220;By grace you have been saved through faith&#8230;.&#8221;  If man does not seek God&#8217;s grace &#8220;through faith,&#8221; that is, believing in his Word enough to obey it, he will not receive it.</p>
<p>Think about these things, Hunter.  This is not just a debate exercise.  I&#8217;ve presented plain passages, and my interpretation of them can be harmonized with any Scripture you may cite, whether it has to do with God&#8217;s grace or salvation by faith.  With all due respect, your interpretation has failed to deal with baptism at all. You have not even explained why it played such an important role in the lives of the early Christians.</p>
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		<title>By: Hunter Skipper</title>
		<link>http://www.truthandrepose.com/2009/05/28/john-316and-17-and-18/comment-page-1/#comment-910</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunter Skipper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 07:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthandrepose.com/?p=428#comment-910</guid>
		<description>salvation is by faith. For example, Rom. 5:1 states that we are justified (declared righteous) by faith. It does not say faith and baptism. If baptism were part of salvation, then it would say we were justified by faith and baptism. But it does not. If justification is by faith, then it is by faith. Baptism is not faith. It is a ceremony.  It is something we do as a ritual. Furthermore, please consider the following verses which declare how we are saved.

Rom. 3:22, &quot;even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction.&quot;
Rom. 3:26, &quot;for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.&quot;
Rom. 3:28, &quot;For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.&quot;
Rom. 4:5, &quot;But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.&quot;
Rom. 5:1, &quot;Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,&quot;
Gal. 3:8, &quot;And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham.&quot;
Gal. 3:24 , &quot;Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.&quot;
Eph. 2:8, &quot;For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.&quot;
Additionally, Paul tells us that the gospel is what saves us and that the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, (1 Cor. 15:1-4). Baptism is not included in the description of the gospel. This explains why he said he came to preach the gospel, not to baptize: &quot;I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don&#039;t remember if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel...&quot; (1 Cor. 1:14-17). If baptism is necessary for salvation, then why did Paul downplay it and even exclude it from the description of what is required for salvation? It is because baptism isn&#039;t necessary for salvation. Therefore, John 3:5 must be interpreted in a manner consistent with the rest of scripture.

Another way of making this clear is to use an illustration. Let&#039;s suppose that a person, under the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 16:8), believed in Jesus as his savior (Rom. 10:9-10; Titus 2:13), and has received Christ (John 1:12) as Savior. Is that person saved? Of course he is. Let&#039;s further suppose that this person who confesses his sinfulness, cries out in repentance to the Lord, and receives Jesus as Savior, then walks across the street to get baptized at a local church. In the middle of the road he gets hit by a car and is killed. Does he go to heaven or hell? If he goes to heaven then baptism isn&#039;t necessary for salvation. If He goes to hell, then trusting in Jesus, by faith, isn&#039;t enough for salvation. Doesn&#039;t that go against the Scriptures that say that salvation is a free gift (Rom. 6:23) received by faith (Eph. 2:8-9)? Yes it does. Baptism is not necessary for salvation and John 3:5 cannot teach that it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>salvation is by faith. For example, Rom. 5:1 states that we are justified (declared righteous) by faith. It does not say faith and baptism. If baptism were part of salvation, then it would say we were justified by faith and baptism. But it does not. If justification is by faith, then it is by faith. Baptism is not faith. It is a ceremony.  It is something we do as a ritual. Furthermore, please consider the following verses which declare how we are saved.</p>
<p>Rom. 3:22, &#8220;even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction.&#8221;<br />
Rom. 3:26, &#8220;for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.&#8221;<br />
Rom. 3:28, &#8220;For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.&#8221;<br />
Rom. 4:5, &#8220;But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.&#8221;<br />
Rom. 5:1, &#8220;Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,&#8221;<br />
Gal. 3:8, &#8220;And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham.&#8221;<br />
Gal. 3:24 , &#8220;Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.&#8221;<br />
Eph. 2:8, &#8220;For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.&#8221;<br />
Additionally, Paul tells us that the gospel is what saves us and that the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, (1 Cor. 15:1-4). Baptism is not included in the description of the gospel. This explains why he said he came to preach the gospel, not to baptize: &#8220;I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don&#8217;t remember if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel&#8230;&#8221; (1 Cor. 1:14-17). If baptism is necessary for salvation, then why did Paul downplay it and even exclude it from the description of what is required for salvation? It is because baptism isn&#8217;t necessary for salvation. Therefore, John 3:5 must be interpreted in a manner consistent with the rest of scripture.</p>
<p>Another way of making this clear is to use an illustration. Let&#8217;s suppose that a person, under the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 16:8), believed in Jesus as his savior (Rom. 10:9-10; Titus 2:13), and has received Christ (John 1:12) as Savior. Is that person saved? Of course he is. Let&#8217;s further suppose that this person who confesses his sinfulness, cries out in repentance to the Lord, and receives Jesus as Savior, then walks across the street to get baptized at a local church. In the middle of the road he gets hit by a car and is killed. Does he go to heaven or hell? If he goes to heaven then baptism isn&#8217;t necessary for salvation. If He goes to hell, then trusting in Jesus, by faith, isn&#8217;t enough for salvation. Doesn&#8217;t that go against the Scriptures that say that salvation is a free gift (Rom. 6:23) received by faith (Eph. 2:8-9)? Yes it does. Baptism is not necessary for salvation and John 3:5 cannot teach that it is.</p>
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